- THE SURGE WORKED AND BUSH WILL BE LONG AND WELL REMEMBERED FOR IT - AND FOR HIS COURAGE AND DETERMINATION.
- WE SHALL LONG BE GRATEFUL TO HIM AND TO PETRAEUS AND ODIERNO, AND OUR ARMED FORCES - AND THEIR FAMILIES.
- IF KERRY OR OBAMA HAS BEEN PRESIDENT WE WOULD HAVE BEEN DEFEATED.
DEDICATED TO EXPOSING DISINFORMATION AND PROPAGANDA AND TO PROMOTING UNIVERSAL HUMAN RIGHTS - WITH SHARP ANALYSIS AND BLUNT COMMENTARY. NO ADS. NO TIP-JAR. JUST THE TRUTH.
Saturday, August 30, 2008
GOOD ARTICLE REVIEWING THE FACT-GATHERING/DECISION-MAKING PROCESS THAT LED TO THE SURGE
A GOOD ARTICLE - IN THE NYTIMES, OF ALL PLACES.
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WASHINGTON — When President Bush speaks to the Republican convention on Monday, he is expected to tout the “surge” of forces in Iraq as one of his proudest achievements. But that decision, one of his most consequential as commander in chief, was made only after months of tumultuous debate within the administration, according to still-secret memorandums and interviews with a broad range of current and former officials.
Of course, the most consequential decision was recklessly invading the country in the first place.
Patting Bush on the back for the "surge" (a change of course that seemed curiously linked to the political climate domestically), is like praising a cop for calling the paramedics to help the poor guy he accidentally shot.
CHENNY: U R AN ASS.
LIBERATING IRAQ FROM SADDAM WAS NOT LIKE RUNNING SOMEONE OVER.
SADDAM WAS IN VIOLATION OF A DOZEN UNSCR'S - WHICH WERE THE DE FACTO ARMISTICE; THEREFORE A STATE OF WAR REVERTED.
DAVID KAY AND HANS BLIX BOTH TESTIFIED THAT SADDAM HAD VIOLATED THE FINAL UNSCR, #1441.
MERELY BY FILING A FALSE FINAL DECLARATION.
SADDAM HAD KILLED AND TORTURED 50,000 IRAQIS A YEAR FOR 20 YEARS.
HE WAS A TYRANT.
TOPPLING HIM WAS A GREAT THING FOR IRAQIS.
ASK THEM.
I WISH YOU WOULD EITHER WAKE UP OR FUCK OFF.
You really haven't refuted my point though.
The only reason the "surge" was necessary was because of the administration's own boneheaded policies. From the invasion itself, to disbanding the Iraqi military, to cronyism in the CPA, to the absurdly stubborn "stay the course" rose-colored rhetoric that continued until it was obvious that the Dems were going to wipe out the GOP in Nov. 06.
The "surge" was a hail-mary attempt to rectify all the mistakes they had made.
My analogy stands.
chenny:
u r an ass.
i refuted your point in its entirety.
your point:
"Of course, the most consequential decision was recklessly invading the country in the first place. "
the invasion as not reckless it was great and necessary.
wake up or eff off.
ChenZen,
You are ignoring the fact that the USA fought and won 3 Wars in Iraq.
The first was the war against Saddam Hussein. That was won in a few weeks. The US moved more troops across more enemy territory faster than anyone else in history. With the tragic loss of less than 200, despite a force of some 200,000 against a force of 400,000.
The second war was the war against Al Qaeda. In this war, the battle of Iraq was won, although the war does go on. However, the US & allies eliminated several tens of thousands of Al Qaeda fighters from the field.
The third war was the war against Sunni & Shia Militias. This is the war for which the surge was required. And remember, the surge was not merely a troop build-up, it was also a drastic change in rules of engagement.
The surge was not needed to defeat Saddam. The surge was not needed to defeat Al Qaeda. The surge was needed to knock down and win over the Sunni and Shia Militias.
A year or two years earlier, the situation was not such that it could have worked.
Just as we could not have invaded Normandy in 1942 or 1943.
Your analogy is false.
punditarian-
The second war was the war against Al Qaeda. In this war, the battle of Iraq was won, although the war does go on. However, the US & allies eliminated several tens of thousands of Al Qaeda fighters from the field.
You mean the insurgents? The people who didn't take up arms until we invaded and looting and chaos broke loose in the country? They weren't the 20th hijackers, ya know. I mean, you can call them Al Qaeda if you want to, but the truth is the vast majority of those people didn't pose a threat to the homeland before, during or after. I suppose that containing the blowback was something we had to do, but please don't sit there and try to tell me that there were "tens of thousands" of Al Qaeda fighters sitting in Iraq planning the next 9/11 or something.
CHENNY:
thje insurgency was almost all al qaeda fueled.
even the shias killing sunnis for revenge.
that was also a war started by al qaeda - when they blew up the golden dome for just that effect.
you:
"the vast majority of those people didn't pose a threat to the homeland before, during or after. I suppose that containing the blowback was something we had to do, but please don't sit there and try to tell me that there were "tens of thousands" of Al Qaeda fighters sitting in Iraq planning the next 9/11 or something."
wrong bong-breath.
al qaeda decided to make iraq the central front after we kicked saddam out.
they flooded in. with syria's and iran's aid.
had we left, then they would control iraq.
had we elected kerry - or done what obama wanted us to do - then al qaeda and iran would control iraq.
that would be bad for the homeland, the middle east.
all freedom loving people everywhere.
wake up or fuck off.
please.
the sunni awakening was when the sunnis - who had prospered under saddam - stopped fighting us and the shias when they realized al qaeda was worse, and that we weren't going to bug-out.
(as kerry/obama would have had us bug-out.)
the surge made the awakening possible and successful.
I WISH CHENNY HAD AN AWAKENING!
Chen,
Saddam hosted all sorts of terrorists, and had terrorist training facilities.
Iraqi government documents who he was cooperating with Al Qaeda.
After the initial liberation of Iraq, Al Qaeda poured reinforcements into the country. Osama Bin Laden declared Iraq to be the major front for the worldwide Jihad.
Those are the tens of thousands of terrorists the Coalition killed.
They were killed when they were sent to Iraq, instead of being sent to kill you in your hometown.
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