Sabeel, a group trying to promote the view that Christians should not offer support to Israel, announces the opening of the Carter Center on the West Bank. This is nothing less than an attempt to weaken Christian support for IsraelThe idea that the Carter Center is trying to promote is called Replacement Theology. Replacement Theology was the foundation upon which Christian anti-Semitism grew throughout the millenia.
This is a new low from you-know-who.
This support is based, in part, on a view that God has a covenant with Jews that Christians are Biblically bound to honor. The Sabeel group has been propagandizing the view that this Covenant between God and the Jews is broken and that Christians (in particular, Palestinian Christians) have replaced Jews as the group that God honors. Carter has now announced that he supports this effort. Carter has clearly embarked on an effort to erode support for Israel among Christians-this support has become increasingly important to Israel and therefore a target for Carter.
See "Splitting the Evangelicals from Israel" for some background. Also, this.
Here's what the Christian Bible (Romans Chapter 11) has to say about God's relationship in the days after the Messiah Jesus Christ died and was resurrected:
1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B) May it never be! For (C) I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
25 For (AL)I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this (AM)mystery--so that you will not be (AN)wise in your own estimation--that a partial (AO) hardening has happened to Israel until the (AP)fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"(AQ)THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB." 27"(AR)THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, (AS)WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.29 for the gifts and the (AV)calling of God (AW)are irrevocable. "
Thus, replacement theology is a heresy. American Protestants began the work of doing away with this heresy in the nineteenth century. The Vatican II formally renounced Replacement Theology, and Pope Benedict has written eloquently on the subject of the Jews place in God's larger plan for mankind.
Now, here we see Jimmy Carter, in conjunction with his Muslim allies, attempting to resurrect the discredited heresy. Jimmy Carter is a politician who is attempting to wade into Theological waters. By what authority has he set about redefining Christian doctrine?
I do not accept Replacement Theology but you should have quoted the entire Chapter of Romans 11 and for that matter the enitre book of Romans because you do as Jimmy Carter and his cronys do. you take the passages out of context and hence misinterpret the chapter.
ReplyDeleteWhen Paul Talks of "All Israel" he is not saying that anyone who was ever part of national Israel past present or future will be saved, "Israel" in this context is the olive tree, which is made up of the Jews who have accepted Christ and also the Gentiles who have accepted Christ, (Spiritual Israel, the spiritual descendents of Abraham who live by faith) the gentiles are the wild olive branches grafted in.
Where The purveyors of Replacement Theology showed who their father was (Satan) is that they took the theoogy to mean they were to hate and destroy all Jews, those two acts alone were enough to say that they were not tru Christians.
However the Idea that the new Covenant in Christ has replaced the old covenant is true and Biblical see Hebrews 8:7-13:
"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[
In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."
But with all that it does not mean we are aupposed to treat the Jews as those who were the purveyors of Replacement Theology did. We are to live in truth and be a Godly witness to all men. And especially to the Jews because their nation was chosen by God to reveal himself to for us.
In regards to the Middle East Conflict, a person who lives in Truth i.e in the word will see where the truth is and will see that the Palestinians and their Muslim brothers do not act and conduct themselves honestly with Israel, and they have no intention of doing so. This makes it necessary for those who call themselves Christians to be supportive of Israel.
I don't think the chapter is as clear as you think it is on what exactly is the definition of "Israel."
ReplyDeleteClearly, it is talking about the root, the vine, and the branches of the olive tree, and that does include those who accept Christ.
It is also clear that God proclaims that he has kept for himself a "remnant" of Jews.
But, the book of Zechariah also makes mentions of the idea that all of Israel will be saved (and clearly, it is talking about all Jews):
9"And in that day I will (Q)set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10"I will (R)pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have (S)pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one (T)mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
Look, I recognize that my theology is not the accepted theology, and I don't put it forth with as dogma (I accept that I could be wrong), but it seems to me that God has a different plan of salvation for Jewish people. By that I do not mean that salvation will not come to Jews through the Blood of Christ, nor do I mean that I don't believe that they will come to belief in Christ as their Messiah and Savior. Instead, it seems to me that God is giving them an extra chance. He has "hardened their hearts, until the fullness of the Gentiles have come in."
Judaism is not an evangelical religion. God promised that His Word would be proclaimed to all the earth. I think that is the time of the Gentiles. When our time is up God will work His plan with the Jews.
That's what I believe.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Oh, by the way, just for the record, here is the entirety of Romans 11:
ReplyDelete1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;
8just as it is written,
"(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."
9And David says,
"(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10"(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER."
11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.
12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their (T)fulfillment be!
13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as (U)I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14if somehow I might (V)move to jealousy (W)my fellow countrymen and (X)save some of them.
15For if their rejection is the (Y)reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but (Z)life from the dead?
16If the (AA)first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17But if some of the (AB)branches were broken off, and (AC)you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that (AD)it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19(AE)You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you (AF)stand by your faith (AG)Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's (AH)kindness, (AI)if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also (AJ)will be cut off.
23And they also, (AK)if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For (AL)I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this (AM)mystery--so that you will not be (AN)wise in your own estimation--that a partial (AO)hardening has happened to Israel until the (AP)fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"(AQ)THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
27"(AR)THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
(AS)WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
28From the standpoint of the gospel they are (AT)enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for (AU)the sake of the fathers;
29for the gifts and the (AV)calling of God (AW)are irrevocable.
30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy.
32For (AX)God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
33Oh, the depth of (AY)the riches both of the (AZ)wisdom and knowledge of God! (BA)How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
34For (BB)WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?
35Or (BC)WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN?
36For (BD)from Him and through Him and to Him are all things (BE)To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
The "Christian" Bible was written by Jews and is VERY clear: G-d will treat YOU as YOU treat Israel. Stop with your symbolism and guessery. You only sound more fanatical and certainly less holy.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I am speaking to all those replacement wanna-be-theologians
ReplyDeleteThanks for clarifying that, Larry.
ReplyDeleteMany of my fellow Christians are tremendously convinced that they possess the exact right definition of scripture. I find Romans 11 to be a difficult book to decipher. The fact that Paul sets up the verse which eventually reads, "all Israel will be saved" with the words,
25For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in" indicates to me that this particular verse is, well, a "mystery", and thus not open to easy interpretation.
And yet, my fellow Christians would run roughshod where angels fear to tred.
And, as you mention, Genesis 12:3 promises that God will exact revenge or Grace on people exactly proportionate to how they treat the Jews.
Larry Blount Said:
ReplyDeleteThe "Christian" Bible was written by Jews and is VERY clear: G-d will treat YOU as YOU treat Israel. Stop with your symbolism and guessery. You only sound more fanatical and certainly less holy.
I say:
The chapter is not a mystery. All of the Law and Prophets pointed towards Jesus, this was for the Jews as well as the Gentiles. Therefore it is ludicrous to say that God has made a "special separate provision" with the Jews, wherefore they do not have to believe in Jesus to be saved". Jesus was their provision. If that was the case then there would have been no need for Jesus sacrifice which was ordained from before the foundation of the world. This you forget. It is not to be against them to say this.
Larry blount said:
P.S. I am speaking to all those replacement wanna-be-theologians
I say:
Your reply here displays a prideful arrogance. You and Pastorius agree that anyone who disagrees with you is arrogant for saying that they have an exact interpretation of Scripture but then you turn around and display that same arrogance with your viewpoint. Again it is not against the Jews to say that they must believe in Jesus to be saved. And you obviously ignored what I said about "Replacement Theology"
Pastorious says:
Many of my fellow Christians are tremendously convinced that they possess the exact right definition of scripture. I find Romans 11 to be a difficult book to decipher. The fact that Paul sets up the verse which eventually reads, "all Israel will be saved" with the words,
25For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in" indicates to me that this particular verse is, well, a "mystery", and thus not open to easy interpretation.
And yet, my fellow Christians would run roughshod where angels fear to tred.
I say:
Again you do as your friend does you use the same logic to defend your view as the correct view while saying, if someone who opposes your view uses that same logic then they are being arrogant and running "roughshod" over scripture. If anyone is running roughshod over scripture it is you and your friend.
Pastorius Says:
And, as you mention, Genesis 12:3 promises that God will exact revenge or Grace on people exactly proportionate to how they treat the Jews.
I say:
Again you are doing the same thing as your friend, you equate someone saying that the Jews are not saved as the same as saying they should be treated roughly and badly. This is not only an invalid argument it is not what I said.
Additionally how do you reach people to get them saved? Is it through treating them roughly and bad? No it’s by showing them Jesus and how do we show them Jesus? Through love and compassion, so get off your own personal hang ups about Replacement Theology which you are projecting onto other people.
TMWNLTMBTG,
ReplyDeleteHow am I running roughshod over scripture? I am admitting that I am not clear on the interpretation.
Consider this:
1) the passage begins by speaking of a mystery
2) the passage warns against being too wise in your own estimation
3) the passage declares that a hardening of the hearts of Jews happened for a specific reason
4) The overall thrust of the chapter is that Jews will be saved when their eyes are opened. We know from Zechariah that this will happen at the end. Romans tells us "all Israel will be saved." Zechariah and Romans both seem to predict some mass conversion of Jews as the result of God revealing His Son ("he whom they have pierced") in Glory.
Question, would God harden the hearts of His People and not give them an opportunity to come back?
Well, maybe. We know from other verses throughout the Bible that God does harden the hearts of those who turn their backs on Him. But, we also know that God seems to be pursuing His people like the prodigal son.
Let me ask you a question, what relationship does God have with the Jews? Are they still His people? And, if not, then how are you not in line with Replacement Theology? If it is simply because you believe you ought to be nice to Jews, well then, that is an improvement over many in history. But, I think if you look at the stories of Dietrick Bonhoeffer and the Ten Boon family, and the stories of other great supporters of the Jews in times of trouble, you will find that such support came from people who rejected Replacement Theology.
By the way, I define Replacement Theology as the idea that the Jews have been supplanted by the Church as God's people.
I believe God has some sort of special relationship with the Jews, and I believe that has been born out throughout history and scripture. This is not to say that we gentile followers of Christ are not also loved by God. I think that is also born out in scripture and history. But, it all started with the Jews, and I don't believe it has stopped.